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A discussion forum on theology, faith, doubt, prayer,

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LIZ: Bad things happen to us randomly and senselessly. I don't feel for one moment that God "wills" this or desires it in order that we learn something. Even Jesus prayed that "this cup pass from me."

MIKE: There is an old worn out question, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" That is a different question than the two or three about my circumstances. My questions are more of the sort "How can we put our trust completely in God's hands, when we have fallen flat on our faces metaphorically from placing trust in Him in the past?"

Also, "Lesson was learned, then lesson was learned again, but the suffering kept coming. How do we keep on praying when it makes no difference?"

But those were my original questions. Now, I understand from you the difference between relationship and expectations. So the relationship remains with God -- I in Him and He in me. That is good news. It would be disastrous news to find out He is no longer in me, and my soul is gone.

LIZ: (At the same time, I'm very sorry about your experience with your client, the bank and the courts. Injustice is a bitter pill to swallow and I didn't mean to discount your dismay over this.)

MIKE: This is a side issue, but I have seen so much injustice from the court system, so many judges just making quick and flippant decisions taking the easy way out without conforming their decisions to the facts, that it shames me to be part of a system of injustice.

LIZ: It can seem insufficient to hear God is with us, in us, loving us. Why, we wonder, can't the "Lord of the Universe" make it all go away? I don't think love works that way. When I was struggling with the question of depression I happened to say to my director: "I feel as though I'm tied to a tree, beset by wolves." (Clinical depression is beyond horrible.) And my director asked something like: "Would it help if Bob were near? Even though he, too, is tied to a tree?" And I responded: "Oh, yes! Just having him nearby would help! And my priest-director said, simply: "Liz, what if God is nearby, but tied to a tree?"

MIKE: I understand your point very well. The reason I posted my comment on the Merton Board was because it helps to know other people are reflecting on these circumstances and giving words of encouragement. Having friends tied to a tree and unable to help is less useful than if they were free to help. But at least if you can communicate your fear and distress to them, it somehow makes it easier to bear the burden -- knowing other people care, even if they cannot help.

LIZ: That may mean nothing to you but it was a blaze of light for me, a moment when my entire relationship with God was changed. I realized that God - even more intimately than Bob - is always there, always nearby, always loving, that, in fact, I exist in Love; however, God doesn't change the laws of chance, of existence, or genetic makeup just for me. It's what I do with reality that determines my life. That sense of responsibility for my response to existence has simplified life immensely. I simply never think in terms of, "It's not fair," any longer. After all, it's also not "fair" when things go well for me and not for others.

MIKE: I came to a similar conclusion ten or more years ago. I refer to it as accepting life's twists and turns, rather than trying to control the ride. With this acceptance comes a deep inner peace. But I am pulled out of that tranquility by people asking for prayers, in essence, to reshape the twists and turns in their lives, and by dealing with those twists in the road in my own life.

LIZ: About prayer requests: Honestly, internally I simply say the word, "Courage," on their behalf. Whatever life will bring them, I deeply, strongly hope for their courage to accept and endure if a bad outcome occurs. It's what I ask for myself, always and only.

MIKE: It I did that, I think I would not be drawn out of the tranquility as often. The problem is that people are not asking for courage to accept their circumstances, they are asking for prayers to change those circumstances. I suspect some of the people might be offended if they knew you or I were praying for them to have peace with their circumstances but not actually praying for a miracle cure when that is what they have requested of us. What do you think?

LIZ: Finally, my best friend died of cancer almost 25 years ago after being diagnosed only 5 months previously. People at St. Tom's prayed for her earnestly and constantly and one profoundly Catholic prof at Purdue was astounded when she died. ("I prayed all the time for her," he said. "I never thought she'd die!) I was always puzzled by that.

MIKE: Perfect example. I'm sure the professor knows about accepting life's circumstances. But deep down inside, he also thought his prayers could lead to intervention and change circumstances. He was lulled out of the tranquility of acceptance by wanting to alter specific outcomes. I just can't reconcile the two different approaches. Again, it would make life much easier for all of us if we just followed the acceptance approach. But I wonder if we are called upon to pray for a change in circumstances (the brutality of Darfur is a good example) even if it means we will be let down time and again.

LIZ: Tragedy happens, people die, we grieve. And still, we also experience the most awesome moments of love and beauty and truth and compassion and mercy and forgiveness and courage from those around us, more than we can ever say we've earned. We're vulnerable to all the vagaries of this world and we also exist in Love. It's just the way it is, Mike.

MIKE: Would it also be fair to say "tragedy is avoided" sometimes by prayer? Would the 13 year old boy in Missouri have been found if people had not been praying for his rescue? Did the prayers make a difference, or was it pre-ordained that he would be discovered? This raises an interesting point. We we talk about "acceptance," we always mean the bad things in life. Do we also have to "accept" the good but not think we caused the good to happen with our prayers?

I ask that as a rhetorical question, because perhaps there is no correct answer. I will eat lunch this week with a wise 85-year old Baptist friend and get her input on this. If anything comes of the conversation, I will post a follow up message.
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